The Hillman & Chrysler Avenger Forum

Avenger Related => Technical => Topic started by: Redassassin on October 26, 2016, 02:12:51 PM

Title: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: Redassassin on October 26, 2016, 02:12:51 PM
So this is what I've done so far go try and fix the issue:

New battery
New earth leads for battery and starter motor
Rebuilt starter motor
Replacement aftermarket ignition switch
New distributor cap and rotor (they needed doing)
New spark plugs
Tappets and timing professionally tuned

Whenever the engine seems to be hot the starter can't seem go turn the engine past a compression stroke, taking a spark plug out allows the engine to turn over, the timing isn't too far advanced as its only 8 degress and that's apparently normal for these engines, what else could it possibly be?
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: JoKer on October 26, 2016, 03:41:33 PM
done a compression test? or TK Leakdown test? (I'm suggesting or suspecting the motor might be a bit tired after the list above)

hope not OR you didnt mention Spark plug leads?
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: Redassassin on October 26, 2016, 09:47:50 PM
Haven't done a compression test, what happens is the car will start and run perfectly fine but once I stop it to start it again when it's hot the starter will sometimes do a single turn then stop, sometimes flicking the key a few times Wil get the starter cranking again, another method is forcing the motor to turn by putting it in gear and then the starter motor will start cranking again, when the car is running it's fine, doesn't burn any oil, runs well etc. I'll get some new HT leads tomorrow as they're cheap enough and I'll let you know the results
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: oldschool on October 26, 2016, 11:02:48 PM
It sounds like your starter motor has a dodgy armature and/or solenoid...were they checked/replaced when it was overhauled?
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: TheMechanicnz on October 27, 2016, 06:09:01 AM
Have you checked if your missing a tooth on the flywheel ring gear? That would cause it to lock up until it gets bumped over a tooth.
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: JoKer on October 27, 2016, 09:23:44 AM
fun "fact" a motor will always stop in the same place when you turn it off and yep ring gears may wear out in that particular high use spot (I feel its a myth but worth mentioning re the above missing tooth theory)
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: Redassassin on October 27, 2016, 11:06:42 AM
Collins auto electrical in hamilton, I was actually booked in yesterday for them to have another look at the starter but because of the fire at a. h. Frank's next door they've had to close up shop until they find a new location to setip and I'm not too keen to take it to amother auto electrician as I'll have to pay them where collins gave me a 12 month guarantee, I'll pull the starter out this arvo to check the flywheel and ring gear
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: Redassassin on October 27, 2016, 12:21:33 PM
Quote from: oldschool on October 26, 2016, 11:02:48 PM
It sounds like your starter motor has a dodgy armature and/or solenoid...were they checked/replaced when it was overhauled?

They bench tested the starter, said it seemed to be ok but did a service on it (new brushes etc)
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: oldschool on October 27, 2016, 01:50:54 PM
A bench test isn't good enough when servicing a starter motor...old armatures can get open circuits and/or short circuits in the coils, so each segment loop has to be checked with an ohm meter. There can't be ANY open circuits otherwise the starter motor won't have much power and/or won't turn at all when randomly stopped in a particular position..which sounds like what's happening in your case. 
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: avengertiger on October 27, 2016, 05:33:19 PM
which starter is yours? the old long type or with the solenoid on top of starter?
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: Redassassin on October 27, 2016, 08:56:36 PM
The one with the solenoid on top, my starter motor seems to be out of a mitsubishi though, it's not a Lucas one
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: avengertiger on October 28, 2016, 07:21:21 AM
made by mitsubishi thats correct but couldn't find any reference to being fitted to a mitsi when my one went on fire.but it will be the more powerful of the two starters.
check flywheel as suggested first.
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: Redassassin on October 31, 2016, 01:55:07 PM
Took the starter off and checked the ring gear and flywheel, both of them are fine, guess I'll have to wait for collins to setup shop again and get them to have another look at the starter, alternatively I'll just have to bite the bulet and pay for a third auto electrician to have a crack at it (already been rebuilt twice, so far the starter has had $480 spent on it)
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: Redassassin on November 02, 2016, 09:57:32 AM
So I've managed to fix the issue and i'm facepalming myself... the lead that goes to the battery (not the 12v to starter the other one) was so badly corroded the copper was just green, we cut it back a decent way and there was still corrosion, cut it back further, put a new terminal on and no more starting issues atm
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: JoKer on November 02, 2016, 11:00:46 AM
hah funny / not funny

glad to hear of a result at the same time : happy motoring :P
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: Redassassin on November 03, 2016, 11:18:04 AM
Sadly that wasn't the issue,  it seems that it was starting fine for a couple of days because it was parked up for 2 weeks :( I've also had a new issue come up now though in addition to the starter issue, the car is missing and backfiring like nobodies business, it has a dellorto dhla 40 on it, what's really weird is when taking off the spark leads for cylinders 2 and 3 there's no change in the way the engine runs but 1 and 4 cause the engine to chug as it should, it's got me stumped, but I'm thinking this and the starter issue may go hand in hand?
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: avengertiger on November 03, 2016, 08:10:33 PM
is it a timing issue have you checked the timing to make sure all is ok
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: Redassassin on November 04, 2016, 08:18:21 AM
Retarded the timing, it's definitely not that, but I have a theory. When I took the Cylinder head off this car to swap out the lumpy cam it had for a stock one, I initially put the head gasket on the wrong way around  :-[ , then torqued the head up and ran the car to find oil pissing out the side of the head/block mating surface. Took the head back off and just swapped the head gasket around to the correct orientation and retorqued the head. But thats not all, I then didn't retorque the head and proceeded to drive the car around for a month before finally retorquing the head, it needed doing. So I think my negligence/laziness may have stuffed the head gasket, so I got a new head set from Repco and am going to redo the head gasket this Tuesday, Even if its not the head gasket I want to do it as I don't trust the current head gasket and it will eliminate it as a possible factor.
Title: Re: StI'll having ignition problems :(
Post by: zenithman on January 11, 2017, 12:49:23 PM
My Avenger was always flattening batteries and ignition was varied. The ballast resistor was allways heating up like a toaster, but several people told me this was normal. After adjusting timing and valve clearence, and tuning the carburetor til I got blue in the face I started looking for a new ignition module. The new module solved all my troubles.