Anyone know any front brake mods?? I would love to hear them
I have heard Princess brakes bolt up easily.
I use Volvo 4 pots in my race car. they bolt up fine. I can't remember exactly what model they were because I did it about 10 years ago.
Here are some pictures.
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1980%20Avenger/avenger015.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1980%20Avenger/avenger016.jpg)
Yer I have heard that about princess 4 pots, yours volvo ones look the part I bet it was a big improvement
I did muck around with some Hillman Superminx disks which were 10" from memory but no one was that interested in
helping me when I said it was for a Avenger, so I pretty much gave up
Yeah the Volvo 4 pots made a huge difference. I want to do the same on my '75 but they will need to be certed. I guess I will have to get my 5 speed certed so I might do it at the same time.
Can someone tell me if the brake booster is different on the later models? I know the master cylinder is different because it is dual circuit on the older Avengers like my race car but only single circuit on my Hillman Avenger. I was wondering if they changed the booster as well as the master cylinder. In my manual it does mention 2 different type of boosters but they don't say which models had the different one. I could go down and check what I have on the race car if nobody knows.
Would it be a good idea to use a late model booster and master cylinder if I convert my brakes? my current booster and master cylinder have been rebuilt lately.
I have a Chrysler United kingdom manual, well its in 2 books its that big, and it says servo type up to series 6 has a type 28 which is 7"(178mm) and series 7 onwards it is a type 38 which is 8"(203mm) hope that helps
Thanks for that info, that is perfect because it confirms what I thought by looking at my 2 cars. I was pretty sure from looking at my 1975 Hillman Avenger and my 1980 Chrysler Avenger that they were different and the '80 does look bigger.
This is great news because since putting the dual carbs in I have noticed a drop in brake boosting especially at idle because it is only running off one manifold runner so the cam pulse effects how much vacuum you have for boosting the brakes.
Cool well I might replace my brakes with a type 38 booster, dual circuit master cylinder and Volvo calipers.
Does anyone have a spare type 38 and master cylinder they are willing to sell?
Hey sweet, that what this forum is all about, I have a type 38 booster spare,you can have it if I can find it, an maybe master cylinder, I no that Cortina/escort masters fit as i had one on my 78 wagon
Getting enough brake vacuum is a common problem with performance motors, so fitting a larger booster may not achieve much, as there still isn't enough vacuum to operate it properly. It's been mentioned in the oldschool forum that fitting a diesel alternator might be a solution, as they have a vacuum pump built in.
Yeah I have talked to some of my mates about the diesel style brakes. My mates use them in their 900HP 605ci Hemi Plymouth Roadrunner and 1100HP procharged 588ci Hemi Plymouth 'Cuda.
I don't think I need to go to that extreme, my race car stops really well with the Type 38 and Volvo brakes.
My brothers Pacer had no power brakes and it pulled up so well u had to be carefull how hard you hit the pic's so I think it is how you set up you brakes ie master cylinder and wheel cylinder sizer's aye
The Valiant do have awesome brakes.
I upgraded my charger to slightly later VJ Valiant brakes. They use big single piston Girling Girlocks.
It is really over boosted and I need to be super careful when stomping on the brakes because they will lock up the moment you look on them. Once you are used to them they stop the car bloody quickly but you have to be so careful.
It is funny going from the Charger to the Avenger. The charger is feather light and the Avenger is really heavy.
A very simple upgrade is to fit M16 calipers from Escort/Cortina/Capri, they have bigger pistons, also fit the ford disc, its the same diameter but thicker. This is the std set up for the Sunbeam Lotus. These were fitted to GQ4713 when I bought it. The conversion was done by using Ford hubs which I discovered have slightly different wheel bearings needing a different spacer on the stub axle. If you keep the Avenger hubs then new mounting holes need drilling in the disc as the Ford holes do not match the Avenger. If you do use ford hubs the wheel studs have different threads so will need changing or you can use different front and rear wheel nuts.
I think you could do this conversion without certificating as it would need a very knowledgeable WOF checker to spot the difference.
I have now upgraded to vented disc from the 2.8i Capri. This needs a spacer kit for the caliper.
When using bigger front brake, use the Mk2 Estate master cylinder (tandem) as this is a bigger bore. You can identify the difference between them as the saloon has a yellow plastic band and the Estate is orange.
At the back, change to 9" drums from Mk4/5 Cortina, there's a bit of mucking around as the mounting holes need re-drilling so they sit at the right angle, the centre hole of the drum needs to be machined to fit the Avenger axle and the handbrake cables/attachment to drums needs a bit of sorting.
On GQ4713 I use 9" brake from earlier fords (Consul 315?) which have manual adjusters. Important in a race/rally car as with auto adjusters, if you pull on the handbrake on very hot brakes, you loose adjustment.
Bigger brakes are easy, ford capri Vented fit, volvo, and bmw. The mods is to redrill mounting holes to hubs. To space calipers use alloy machine plate, polish with 1200 wet and dry after making to gaurantee seal
So after 2 years parked up I've started getting a few little things done so I can get back on the road! So going back to this post (can't believe its been nearly 6 years) I really want to upgrade front brakes! I like NZ Tigers post, sounds straight forward, I have seen on TM M16 calipers that can take the wider vented disks and disks, So if I kept Avenger hubs and got disks drilled would it be a "bolt on" setup? NZ Tiger?
Well I scored some M16 calipers (local too!) and I have mocked them up on a spare strut I had, What a fit!! just need to sort some M12 1.25 bolts and change the thread to 7/16 other than brake pipe I will be ready to go, the M16 calipers make the Avenger calipers look like they came off a bicycle lol
(http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j341/azza1600/IMG_6128.jpg) (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/azza1600/media/IMG_6128.jpg.html)
(http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j341/azza1600/IMG_6129.jpg) (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/azza1600/media/IMG_6129.jpg.html)
(http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j341/azza1600/IMG_6131.jpg) (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/azza1600/media/IMG_6131.jpg.html)
keep the pics & info coming :P might have to do a bit of a meet after Leadfoot / Oldschool Nats is Wairarapa this year *wink wink*
Hi I also did the same conversion as you, mine were from an Escort, which used the same thread allowing me to use the original bolts , I also used the original pipe and hose with no modification apart from bending the pipe a tad to accommodate the bigger caliper.
Just a note on using the original disc, they are a tad small and the pad will hang over the edge and you will also note the disc dose not run central in the caliper, you will need to put in a spacer to centralise it.
I bought a set of Lotus sunbeam disc (from speedy spares UK)as this disc and p16 caliper is the original set up on that model, they are bigger in diameter so all of the pad will contact the surface and also thicker, and they come with the correct offset for the caliper ,everything bolted up using the original bolts.
These calipers are more than adequate for the weight of the Avenger, they are still the favourite caliper for many a Escort race car
Hey, great info! Thanks, I did read that the p16 capri/escort ones would be the better option but the M16s came up local so I grabbed them, I think you can get the hybrid bolts as I seen them on ebay, I will see how I get on, so my plan is to use caliper spacers and fit capri vented disks if it all works out okay, I wish I did this years ago as it was easier to find ford bits lying around lol, Any chance you could add pic's of your set-up Scarlet? cheers
I just found your post with your brake upgrade, wish I had seen that earlier lol
also found in mk3, 4 cortina plenty of those being wrecked still, I paid $30 for them and a rebuild kit which included 4 new pistons for $90 including freight from UK, here you will pay $30 for each piston and then buy the seal kit separably.
The Lotus Sunbeam also used the 20 mm master cylinder found on some wagons, I scored one of those as well but I have yet to upgrade that.
Hi, on my Avenger Turbo I ran Rover SD1 Vittesse 4 pot callipers, straight bolt on just ned 2 washers between calliper and leg to cantralise on the disc and Peugeot 405 vented discs open the centre bore out by about 30 thou and drill 4 bolt holes. Used a 25mm master cylinder from a 1986 SAAB 900 straight bolt on and om my Sunbeam a Land Rover 110 master just need to change the front pipr fitting, both 25mm
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt5/mechnowhiz/Stop.jpg) (http://s592.photobucket.com/user/mechnowhiz/media/Stop.jpg.html)
So
Quote from: TheMechanicnz on September 18, 2017, 08:59:05 AM
Time for another update!
So the car itself is yet to be completed, but 80% of the bodywork is complete. Engine looks amazing, my engine builder has done an amazing job on the head work, ports are about 5mm bigger throughout. And all the combustion chambers have been made the same capacity.
Started looking for brake setups, missed out on a set of austin princess ones and have been mucked around by a guy over rover sd1 4 pots. This led to more research and discovered wilwood do a direct replacment for the m16 calipers and i happened to find a pair on trademe at clearance price, just need to space them now for vented discs.
Pretty stoked on my purchase though!
(http://imgur.com/bAvoBfB.jpeg)
They appear to have at least one more set (DIBS)
here's what the kit / applications are from fleabay
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Wilwood-For-Ford-Cortina-Westfield-Brake-Kit-Dynalite-4-Pot-Calipers-/231932221370 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Wilwood-For-Ford-Cortina-Westfield-Brake-Kit-Dynalite-4-Pot-Calipers-/231932221370)
Screengrab :
(http://imgur.com/en2canal.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/en2cana.png)
QuoteDescription
NEW - Wilwood Dynalite 4 Pot Brake Kit - Race / Rally / Fast Road application.
To fit: Ford Cortina Mk3, Mk4 & Mk5 / Westfield
For Earlier Corinas, Mk1 & Mk2, please use the Escort Mk2 Kit.
Kit includes:
2 x Wilwood Dynalite 4 Pot Forged Calipers
2 x 247mm x 20mm Vented disks
2 x Fitting kit including, mounting brackets, nuts, bolts, fittings etc.
Application: Ford Cortina Mk3, Mk4 & Mk5 / Westfield
Caliper Type: Forged Dynalite 4-Pot
Lug/Radial: L
Disc Size (Diam x Width): 247 x 20
Possible Wheelsize (Inches): 13
Spare Disc Part No.: BM3164
Brake discs are plain vented, X-Drilled discs available as an extra option, please enquire.
and from another source
http://www.burtonpower.com/wilwood-brake-kit-ford-cortina-strut-247mm-dynalite-4-pot-caliper-rdbk1b.html (http://www.burtonpower.com/wilwood-brake-kit-ford-cortina-strut-247mm-dynalite-4-pot-caliper-rdbk1b.html)
QuoteThis popular 4 pot kit uses the Group 1 Escort/Capri 2.8i vented disc - standard diameter but vented to allow for extra cooling. Included in the kit:
Wilwood forged Dynalite caliper x 2
Caliper mounting bracket x 2
Vented brake disc x 2
Hardware kit
Note: brake pads are not included. Please see further below for the range of brake pad options for this kit.
Also note that brake hoses are also not included. The calipers have an M10x1 male outlet from the rear centre. Whilst many customers choose to make their own solutions (e.g. a new solid kunifer pipe), we can supply brake pipes made to your requirements.
(http://www.burtonpower.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/dbee39002c3ed3c5438224ee0989910f/R/D/RDBK1_Brake_Kit.jpg)
and from the source
Quotehttp://www.wilwood.com/Search/PartNoSearch.aspx?itemdesc=Calipers&itempdf=Calipers (http://www.wilwood.com/Search/PartNoSearch.aspx?itemdesc=Calipers&itempdf=Calipers)
(http://www.wilwood.com/Images/Caliper/Caliper_Photos-Medium/Forged_Dynalite-med.jpg)
The Forged Billet Dynalite has wide spread application over many forms over motorsports. It serves as the base model in the majority of Wilwood's Bolt-On Disc Brake Kits. The latest applied developments and innovations in caliper design and manufacturing processes have resulted in substantial improvements in strength and performance over all comparable models.
Just waiting to confirm they will fit under 13" rims (steels for Rally car) or race before nailing it in
obviously with the right pads/ disks & Spacers etc
Link for Pads : https://www.ebay.com/p/Mintex-1155-Wilwood-Dynalite-4-Pot-Caliper-Brake-Pads-Mdb1796m1155/1349017539?_trksid=p2047675.m4096.l9055 (https://www.ebay.com/p/Mintex-1155-Wilwood-Dynalite-4-Pot-Caliper-Brake-Pads-Mdb1796m1155/1349017539?_trksid=p2047675.m4096.l9055)
thoughts?
Hopefully have a chance to test fit mine tomorrow, shall see how it gos
Quote from: TheMechanicnz on September 18, 2017, 03:13:29 PM
Hopefully have a chance to test fit mine tomorrow, shall see how it goes
got a plan / DXF for the Spacers? I maybe able to get some cut locally to me, but still keen for a group buy to bring your price down is its easier to get 4 done at same time etc
I can make a dxf of my mount when i get it sorted, i can also cut some out if theres any interest.
awesome : wonder how many sets they have : could do group buy? worth you Buying second set, mocking them up & selling me the complete set? (just day dreaming = one Courier parcel then not 3 or 4 gathering Adapter / pads etc, or can I hit buy now & get you to pick up / deliver to your address etc?
(complicates things heaps but simple in my head lol)
Quote from: JoKer on September 18, 2017, 04:55:49 PM
awesome : wonder how many sets they have : could do group buy? worth you Buying second set, mocking them up & selling me the complete set? (just day dreaming = one Courier parcel then not 3 or 4 gathering Adapter / pads etc, or can I hit buy now & get you to pick up / deliver to your address etc?
(complicates things heaps but simple in my head lol)
Thats totally doable if your keen, ill finish my set so i know where im at. Then work something out. Hopefully its as straight forward as ive read. Would yours be for a non vented setup? Ie factory rotors?
nah keen to keep the oem's for the road car (no cert & none on the shelf etc you gotta get them in from UK I was told last time I asked)
actual Racecar so vented be the tits litteraly
well waited a bit & was "offered" them at the same price so hit YUP!!
just gotta arrange freight, unless someone in the area want to pick them up for me? Cant wait for some brackets & pads now
Just waiting for the rotors to arrive now, looking good so far. 20mm vented rotors from a mazda 626. Hopefully the height of the rotor actually matches what their parts book said because then its just redrill and bolt up.
ace : yeah keeping them 13" compatible is a kind of a must for me so might end up doing my own brackets?
/ happy to wait & see how you get on, in no rush or I'l' be divorced before I'm married LOL
Looking at it now, i see no reason why they shouldnt fit under 13's. Ive been wrong before though haha.
Rotors arrived, look nice! Just hope they bolt up! (http://imgur.com/hXhAhsJ.jpeg)
feels like we need some fancy CAD drawings going on or at least MsPaint diagrams LOL
Quote from: JoKer on September 25, 2017, 01:20:36 PM
feels like we need some fancy CAD drawings going on or at least MsPaint diagrams LOL
Sadly all my cads done in my head, no cad at home anymore so a bit tricky. Will be updates tonight, ive got the caliper mounted and spaced. Just have to remove the hub when i get home and take of the old rotor and put the new one on.
Once it all works out i can put the plans out and offer bolt on kits if theres interest.
Well, hit the first speed bump. 626 rotors wont work very well due to the centre bore of the rotor. Not to worried, they were on clearance for $26 so nothing really lost hopefully can return them. On to the next option which has been used before which are bmw series 3 e30. Waiting for them to arrive now so hopefully have attempt #2 tomorrow. Still looks good though (http://imgur.com/HfP47JD.jpeg)
Had success today, bmw rotors worked well.
All that was needed was to have .65mm removed from the bore of the rotor and then re drilled.
Also had to put a 5.5mm spacer behind the wheel bearing for the back of the rotor to clear the lugs on the strut.
Luckily my 13 inch alloys still clear aswell, dropped straight on with about 4mm clearance.
(https://i.imgur.com/pYwQQCoh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uspFSpwh.jpg)
mother mercy
Mates just warned me about uprating the Slave cylinder on the rears to match or some sort of Brake bias to even things out otherwise the Backs will be working harder / biting more
Yeah ill be going disc on the rear on mine aswell as fitting a variable wilwood bias valve.
"F"
as in "Following" Road use or dedicated race car like mine? (I need reminding as I follow a few forums & projects)
/ re read some of this : http://www.avenger.co.nz/forum/index.php?topic=988.0 (http://www.avenger.co.nz/forum/index.php?topic=988.0)
have you looked into the Cert process for Road use etc? Noticed the 'warning' lables on my Brakes that arrived today (and Stickers YAY stickers LOL
Stickers were almost as cool as the calipers haha, this will be a weekend road warrior and occasional track use. Im not at all worried about the calipers for road use as i know they've been used on the road before so should pass certification. I will be getting the whole car certified when its finished and possibly an authority card depending how far i venture.