Hi Guys. I have decided to put a 5 speed gearbox in my '75 Hillman Avenger 1500.
I decided to go for the automatic bellhousing and Sierra 5 speed option.
I went and picked up the gearbox last night. It has a short shift kit installed so it is very tight. I will see how it goes in the car but feels like a good amount of shift length, Hopefully it is not too close that I miss gears but we will see.
My next job is to clean the gearbox up a bit and wait for the bellhousing. Hunted and I went halves in an Avenger engine and Automatic gearbox so he is using the engine and I will use the bellhousing for this project and will try to replace the BW35 in my Charger with the BW45 from the Avenger.
Here is some photos of the gearbox when I got it home. I will be updating you with my progress as I go along. Feel free to post any comments, suggestions or ideas as I do this project.
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1030770.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1030771.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1030773.jpg)
will you have to replace the spigot bearing in the flywheel nearly sure you do as talbot ones are smaller i think will see if i can find out definetly if you dont already know
I don't know. I haven't thought that far ahead yet, I think there is going to be a bit of trial and error with lessons learnt along the way but hopefully this post will make it easier for others to do the same conversion down the track.
i will find out im pretty sure you have to can be bought in your local ford dealer i presume or mal stuart does them i will mail mal and ask him is there anything out of the ordinary to look out for
The Avenger spigot shaft is 16mm diameter, probably the same as the Sierra one? The coffee drinking conversion just mentioned changing the spigot bearing to a Ford/Talbot one?
Maybe they mean putting in a needle roller bearing as early Avengers had a brass bush, nothing about any machining required.
Yeah they are a bit vague about that part on that forum so I might have to figure that part out as I go.
I will be using the coffee drinking conversion as my base for the conversion, obviously using the auto bellhousing instead of cutting a standard bellhousing.
Yes it will be interesting to see if you can get by without having to shorten the gear selector, that part looks a bit tricky!
See info on other 5 speed thread. To shorten the gearlever position to suit avenger floor , you need another rear gearbox cover, mill of the existing one , saw of your doner, shape and weld into place, shorten selector shaft. The good thing about fitting these to avengers is the length so close , the spline are the same, and the driveshaft fits.I forgot to mention ,,, watch the input shaft lenght , i shortened mine to give clearence on the crankshafrt
Thanks heaps. I saw your other post. Much appreciated.
I am sure I will have heaps of questions once I start this project.
I got the Avenger Auto gearbox and bell housing over the weekend (Thanks Andrew) I will be starting the conversion soon so I will keep you all up to date.
cant wait!
Will keep a close eye on your progress too, I have the auto bellhousing let over from our auto - manual conversion.
I dropped my Avenger off today for the start of it's 5 speed conversion.
I will keep you updated on progress.
Here are some pictures of the bellhousing and gearbox all cleaned up.
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1040993.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1040994.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1040995.jpg)
good to see progress man. are you bringing car to nats? or just getting this all done out of the car for now?
I am hoping to have the 5 speed in by nats. It will be pushing it but if the 5 speed isn't ready I will still bring the Avenger but with the 4 speed.
It would be nice to have it done before I go away so I can have the overdrive for the long trip. Hopefully save some gas with the lower revs at motorway cruising speed.
Went down the Bygone Autos to check on the progress this afternoon. I must say they are doing an awesome job and I am really impressed with the work so far. The adapter plate looks amazing, it is a pity it will be hidden under the car because it is a pretty cool bit of engineering and shiny also.
I have got the Avenger back for the weekend with the 4 speed gearbox and it will be going back down on monday to finish off the rest of the 5 speed conversion.
So far the bellhousing has been fitted and the gearbox mount made. They have had the 5 speed in the car to check the shifter placement.
All that is left is sorting out the clutch pivot point, finish off the shifter and a few other bits and pieces.
Here are some photos of the work to date.
Adapter plate. Bygone Autos has done a great job fabricating this, it locates centrally against the gearbox and bellhousing so we won't have any problems with alignment.
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1040998.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1040999.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1050001.jpg)
Relocated shifter waiting to be welded
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1050002.jpg)
Bellhousing with the window cut for the clutch
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1050004.jpg)
New gearbox mount
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1050007.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1050008.jpg)
nice bit of fab work there,i would say your looking forward to this little mod yes? its meant to make a world of difference.
Went down to pick up my Avenger today with the new 5 speed gearbox.
Bygone Autos has done a really great job on the conversion, even finishing a day ahead of schedule so I can have it ready for my trip down to Palmerston North on Thursday.
I haven't driven it on the motorway yet because there was big tornados on the north shore so traffic was crazy with all the trees knocked over etc but at 50KM in 5th gear it seats at about 1,500RPM. After my trip away I will do an update to let you know how it goes on the motorway.
Shifter fits perfectly and I kept the original 4 speed gearknob so it still looks stock. Reverse is in the same place as it was on the 4 speed so it is just an extra overdrive gear on the upper right. That is good so I don't get mixed up with the position of the gears, they all feel pretty much in the same location as the old 4 speed.
Ratios all feel good, 1st is lower but not stupidly low. There is a bit of a jump between 1st and 2nd then 2nd, 3rd and 4th are pretty much the same as the old 4 speed.
Here is some pictures of it all installed.
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1050039.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1050035.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1050036.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1050037.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1050040.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1050041.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1050049.jpg)
Looks good! was this an expensive project?
I don't know. I haven't got the invoice yet but I am going to go with "Yes".
There is a lot more work that goes in to it. The pictures alway make it look more simple than it is and there is a lot of little bits and peices that need to be modified, customised or fabricated from scratch.
Bygone Auto's did a awesome job on it and I know the amount of work that went in to it so I expect it to be a bit pricey but you do pay for what you get and I got an excellent end product.
I will let you know how much once I get the invoice.
Looks fantastic Richard, we all want one now!! Hard to find auto bell housings tho...reckon they could cut and weld the manual bell housing to fit a Sierra box, like the 'stop for coffee' guy did in England?!
I think the cutting the manual bellhousing would be harder to get the alignment right and I have hear horror stories of bellhousings warping when you weld them and it just seem all too inaccurate.
Doing it the way I did it I think you get a much cleaner and more predictable end product. The adapter plate was CNC machined so it is all computer controlled and pinpoint accurate. The "stop for coffee" guy seemed a lot more loose with how he made it, drilling it by hand and manually cutting everything. I just see more margin for error and problems when you get it on the car with the manual bellhousing method.
I wonder how the two methods would compare on price.
I went for a quick drive along the motorway to try out 5th gear. It goes great. it has dropped from 3,500RPM @ 100KPH down to 2,800RPM @ 100KPH and the engine is very happy at that speed. it does 3,000RPM @ 110KPH with almost no throttle needed to keep it at that speed. unlike before when you had to give it a bit of throttle to keep it at 3,500RPM.
Very pleased with it and I will let you all know how it goes on the big trip down to OS nats.
The gearbox went really well on the long trip down to OS nats. I have done about 1500KM on the gearbox now and it runs sweet. saves about 3L/100KM.
Got the invoice for the conversion project today and yeah well it was very not cheap. Put it this way I could buy Andrew's Avenger on Trademe for less than the conversion cost. but hey you get what you pay for and I got an awesome gearbox conversion.
Since the workshop used a computer for the converter plate does that mean they can just fire up the program and bust out another one now? Surely that would be easier and cheaper than trying to reinvent the wheel.
Yes, they sure can. Give Mal at ByGone Autos a ring and he can sort you out.
ByGone Autos are currently doing the same conversion for another member here.
Awesome. Any idea on the cost for them to make me one? I think I know where an Auto is and I'm going to want to start building up a block early next year if everything works out for me. Obviously I'm in the wrong city and will need to get somebody down here to install and cert everything up eventually.
Actually: same goes for the crossmember. If I could get one of those too I could almost do all the work myself.
Not sure how much they charge now that all the hard work designing it is done :) I know how much mine cost but mine was a complete install and as you said some of my cost was R&D so now they can make them cheaper. The cross member is a modified Sierra which ByGone can make for you. The other tricky bit is the gearshifter relocation.
Give Mal at ByGone Autos a ring and have a talk to him. He will be able to fill you in on costs etc. His number is 09 4833991
I thought the hole for the gear shift was in the right location already?
I would prob be a year away from needing this, but good to know that most the hard work has been done!
No, you need to cut the shifter and move it forward. Look at the 4th photo from the top of this page and you will see the shifter cut and ready to be welded.
looking back : would it be simpler to cut a new hole in floor/extend shifter?
I am totally unfamilar with the linkages underneath/moving it on the box sounds dicey
Okay if you don't mind the gear lever close to the hand brake!
The Sierra shifter sits 75mm further back than the Avenger one.
Yeah I am pretty sure it would come up under the handbrake or stupidly close to it.
Move the shifter is the best way because then it all looks nice and stock. If you look at my photos you can't even tell from inside, I even used the same gearknob and the shift pattern is the same, just with a new 5th gear.