seems these are becoming more common on the forums :o
4 speed? 3 speed with over drive?
post your knowledge / tips / info here please (will try find/copy paste stuff from when I BOUGHT MINE)
Quote from: oldschool on May 31, 2012, 01:22:18 PM
Those borg warner autos are pretty bullet proof, are often used behind 6 cyl Fords and Chryslers.
The only problem I've heard of is losing reverse, just caused by a broken spring in the valve body...easy to fix...lol
Quote from: avenga on May 31, 2012, 01:51:58 PM
Yeah I have a BW35 in my Valiant Charger (the 3 speed version of the BW45 in an Avenger) and it goes really well.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/JoKerNZ/2011/Avenger/June038.jpg)
P
R
N
D
3
2/1
some wires under mine (linkage to lever broke so I have to know/guess what gear I am in)
is there a light?
and I can start in any gear (pending testing of broken linkage/wires)
knowledge: They go pretty good on the straights
googled it and got
http://cobratransmission.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=81
says 4 speed! cant say I have "found" 4
QuoteIn October 1973, the 1250cc version was extended to 1300cc and the 1500cc version, to 1600cc. The cylinder head design was revised too to improve fuel economy. The automatic option was now the new four-speed Borg Warner BW45 gearbox rather than the previous three speed model.
http://www.rootes-chrysler.co.uk/car-development/dev-avenger.html
and
Retro Rides - Any Borg Warner Auto box Experts on here? (http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=14464)
There's been a few discussions on here about the autos. They were only an option on 1500 and 1600 Avengers.
The consensus is that all the NZ 1500 avengers were manuals, so no 3 speed BW35's in NZ Avengers.
The 4 speed BW45 auto was introduced in the UK with the 1600 upgrade in October 1973, but didn't appear in NZ 1600 models until 1975?
My son Logan's auto was registered Feb. 1975 and may be the oldest Avenger auto on the road?
If anyone's heard of or seen a 1974 NZ new auto...let us know?!
In typical Chrysler penny-pinching fashion they used the same T bar with 6 positions for the 3 speed and 4 speed auto.
The mathematicians among us will realise that a 4 speed auto needs 7 positions, PRND321...lol
That's why the lowest position in the 4 speed is a siamese 2/1...meaning you can't hold the auto in 1st gear, like you could in a 3 speed.
There's a light in the gear selector display attached to the long narrow plastic strip that goes around the T bar. The display selector/light holder often breaks off the strip from fatigue and by the light holder fouling on the carpeted tranny tunnel when putting the T bar into the 2/1 position.
I cut up a 2 litre ice cream lid to make a new strip, taping it to the light holder.
Starting in any gear indicates a faulty or disconnected inhibitor switch on the side of the auto, as they normally can only be started in P or N.
No lockup/overdrive on the auto, so stuck with the 5% slip, which is why they rev higher and suck more juice than manuals.
I put 14" Sierra wheels with 175/80 tyres on Logan's to drop the revs back from 3700 @ 100 km/h to 3300.
I wasn't aware of a cylinder head re-design between the 1250/1300 and 1500/1600 models to help fuel economy?
I know the inlet and exhaust manifolds were changed to a free-flow design for a small increase in power and economy.
The inlet manifold got smoother bends, while the exhaust manifold changed to a 4 into 2 outlet from the old 4 into 1.
yea was gunna lookinto Diff ratios next too
3500rpm @ 100 kph (speedo / try GPS out this weekend) isnt too bad I reckoned hence fuelly data interest
Quote from: oldschool on July 16, 2012, 06:24:59 PM
good for 153 km/h
Max power is at 5500 rpm.
http://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1975/1029170/hillman_avenger_alpine_automatic.html
now I need to read my Manual for a bit of a service, sticking in low gears when cold/40kph for a few blocks is not fun (hope not wrecked anything proper)
I wonder if an early Sierra lock up/overdrive auto will fit an Avenger?
If they're like the 5 speed type 9 manual and have a separate bell housing, they could be adapted.
I know they've been fitted into Mk3 Capri's, just bolt on to the Pinto OHC motor.
There's a whole auto Sierra wagon for sale on TradeMe...just swap the motor and box over...Pinto motor is a bit of a boat anchor though...lol
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/ford/sierra/auction-514652176.htm
anyreason why I cant substitute this BW35 for my 45?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/JoKerNZ/2011/OS/2012-10-26135932.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/JoKerNZ/2011/OS/2012-10-26135912.jpg)
My doorstop
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/JoKerNZ/2012/slushie013.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/JoKerNZ/2012/slushie017.jpg)
top one is out of a Triumph
is it as simple as it looks/unbolt/bolt on my Bell and output etc?
or is there something inside mine I should check 1st
The Triumph one might have different bell housing mounts, different splines and a different length affecting your drive shaft, plus it's designed for a 6 cylinder motor.
What happened to the Hunter one...it would be a straight swap onto your Avenger bell housing as the original 1500 Avenger auto probably used a Hunter BW35...a much stronger box than the BW45.
good to know : hunter is at disadvantage of being on the bottom and 16 cars deep in a yard with only a forklift
at $50 squid reckon the trumph one might be a worthwhile gamble
OK
Have a 35 coming from Tirau for $100 and a reply from the other source as follows
QuoteHi Jared
I have two B/W 35s for sale from Hunters, I did have a B/W 45 but it is sold
The B/W 35s are definitely a better auto , there should be no difficulties in swapping bell housings , both Autos work fine and have around 70,000 original KM on them , there are the usual small oil leaks though !
I think a fair price for each auto would be $250
Shipping will be $80 - $100 , depends on how much time is spent on making a small crate or pallet , I can fit onto a standard pallet , but a pallet is to large I would make a smaller pallet to reduce cost , needs to be well protected .
Let me know what you want to do , as the transmission is still in the car , so I have to remove and clean etc
Regards
Andrew Shaw
Assistant Engineering Manager
Progressive Enterprises Limited
CRM Plant [\quote
sounds promising. xmas present to self?
hells yea, waiting a few weeks for the $100 version (inc. delivery!
soooooo Parts availability?
Mine got returned form the "experts" with no valve body
have sent it down to OS user Borgweiser who rebuilt it last, keen to put feelers out there to see if I can assit (idiot who owned it between me and him was doing 5k rpms shift dump launches apparently, hence diff also being dodge when I got it)
Hang in there old boy...I know of an auto Avenger wreck in Wairoa, just waiting to hear if the gearbox is available.
sweet, keep in touch : going to Weirs farm finally this weekend to search for the one dumped down the bank
Share Ross, we only 1.5h drive away an I travel there for work......FREE GAS!!!
I don't know where in Wairoa Aaron...I do know there's two Avengers together...so twice as easy to find...lol
I just did a happy dance : missing bits turned up
I know a useless update but really boring around here!
catchup with Pete and farm raid is still on for this weekend, was talk of building a track with bulldozer to get gear out so sounds like there could be a bit of scrap down this "bank"
I know of another Auto Blue one in a Shed in Woodville too, figure try and use what I got 1st : maybe buy a complete wreck if I have too
this BW45 appreciation thread just popped up on oldschool.co.nz
http://oldschool.co.nz/2011/forum/index.php?/topic/53121-borg-warner-model-45-auto-one-for-the-hillmanites/ (http://oldschool.co.nz/2011/forum/index.php?/topic/53121-borg-warner-model-45-auto-one-for-the-hillmanites/)
Quote
locost_bryan, on 10 Jun 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:
Stumbled across a 1972 article in Autosport magazine about Borg Warner's then-new English/Welsh 4-speed auto. http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/page/october-1972/58 (http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/page/october-1972/58)
QuoteA new Borg-Warner automatic gearbox.—We went down to Port Talbot, braving the distinct possibility of getting irretrievably lost in Swansea on the way home, to see the impressive factory which Borg-Warner have erected on the new Kenfig Industrial Estate just off the A48 (M) road, where they are introducing new methods of production of their automatic transmissions in a fine new building of some one-million square foot floor space.
The main purpose of this move to Wales is manufacture of the new Type 45 four-speed Borg-Warner automatic gearbox, for cars of up to 2-litres, which will eventually supersede the well-known Type 35 three-speed box. We were able to sample the Type 45 transmission in a fuel-injection Volvo 144 which, together with a 1.3-litre Morris Marina, are being used for development and demonstration purposes, and the smoothness of the changes in this closer-ratio gearbox was most apparent. It marks a notable step forward in using plate clutches instead of the difficult to keep in adjustment band brakes of the earlier gearbox and it is significant that pressings replace castings for many of its components. The design, it is pleasing to note, stemmed from this country rather than from America and the new Type 45 box will also be made as a three-speed Type 55, which Toyota are using at present, the casing being sent to them from the Welsh factory.
The production methods at this impressively spacious factory, where 1,500 operatives work, a number to be doubled when the full production of 1,000 Type 45 and 500 Type 55 gearboxes per day is achieved, are most interesting. For instance, there will be an 83-stage transfer machine, supplied by Lamb of Ontario, for machining the aluminium gearbox casings, which needs but three operatives to oversee it. Two 1,000-ton Wilkie & Mitchell presses stamp out clutch cylinders, to a ready-to-use state, with no subsequent machining involved. There are nine stations per press. In contrast to this automation, women operatives fit the rotor blades by hand. Components will be conveyed about the factory on roller-coasters, and J-pattern travelling jigs will facilitate assembly, right up to the dispatch stage. Completed gearboxes are all tested on A. T. & T. dynamometers, having been balanced electronically while revolving at 1,100 r.p.m., their heavy-point marked with a blue spot for the guidance of the car manufacturer fitting the box to his engine.
The gear assemblies are electron-beam welded, each being completed in 4? seconds, the weld being made in a vacuum, using Scieky apparatus, which obviates any distortion or interference with the heat treatment of the gear pressings. Before welding, the components pass through a Raydne washing vat.
Even a brief inspection of the new Borg-Warner plant shows that the company plans a big expansion. Apart from the new gearbox, it supplies BMW, Saab and Citroen with automatic transmissions, while the applications of the Type 35 B-W box to British cars are too well known to need enumeration. B-W claim to have well over 5-million units in use and to serve more than 80 manufacturers in eight countries. They are seeking customers for the new Type 45 transmission, which has ratios of 3:1, 1.94:1, 1.35:1 and direct-drive, against those of 2.39:1, 1.45:1 and direct drive of the Type 35 box. Aluminium is now used for all automatic gearboxes intended for cars of up to 4-litres, although cast-iron casings are found in the XJ6 and XJ12 Jaguar transmissions.
Curious to know what changes Rootes Group made when they changed from the 3-speed Model 35 to the 4-speed Model 45 in the Hunter and Avenger. Was it a straight swap, using the same bellhousing, torque converter, gearbox mounts, and tail shaft? Or were all these components unique to the 45?
Often wondered why this auto wasn't adopted by other manufacturers, especially during the fuel crisis of the mid-70s, as it would seem that the lower first gear ratio (3.1 vs 2.39) would have allowed a taller diff ratio to be used. Or did it have a different torque converter that had a lower multiplication factor, requiring a lower first gear to achieve the same acceleration?
The BW45 wasn't popular as weaker than the BW35 which could handle 6 cylinder Valiant Hemis and V8 Stags! Also people complained that they changed down from top to 3rd on the slightest incline, whereas the BW35 would hold top for longer.
Very few parts are shared between the BW35 and BW45. They have different front flanges, so use different bell housings and have different gear linkages too, BW35 is cable, BW45 is rod. The tailshaft spline and gearbox mount are the same.
I have a BW45 for sale on TradeMe...made in the UK as they said!
Speedo drive woes Help
cable is complete from top to bottom & the speedo flicks over when you manually drive it with a screw driver
what the fix? / BW45 sender unit?
sent it down to garage to get them to check on their hoist
So I had a loud bang and loss of drive this morning at about 80kph, speedo went to zero, pulled over & stopped
Loud clunk into drive and RND etc "Hoping diff" as it did have a bit of a whine BUT the no speedo thing worries me heaps (as in no drive out the rear of the box tho I did not rev it)
Waiting for tow truck to turn up with car to check it out but noticed Ross had stopped listing the BW45 he had (waiting for reply to my txt) and I have oodles of spare manuals but really REALLY wanna keep it Auto just for the spite of it
anyone else have eyes on a spare spare Box? Mine might be salvageable this time (different failure to my OEM one i have in bits in the shed)
any reason I couldn't use a "Avenger BW35" in place of the 45? Triumph 35's have proven to be different bolt patterns