The Hillman & Chrysler Avenger Forum

Avenger Related => Technical => Topic started by: 1600GLS on March 14, 2012, 09:34:03 PM

Title: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: 1600GLS on March 14, 2012, 09:34:03 PM
does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
i hav a 1725 motor out of hunter and was thinking of building a tuff wee motor for it
and myb run a 5speed
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: blekkja on March 14, 2012, 09:51:52 PM
Don't. Your 1600 is way better: the hunter is essentially just the same motor that they used in the SuperMinx. ie: It is old and shit. Avenger motor was designed new for the car and although they went with unexciting technology (OHV instead of newfangled OHC for instance) it is a top little unit because of it. They went with what was proven to work and to work well. And it does. It shouldn't be too much of a problem to get over the magical 100 horse barrier with a bit of enlarging, weight saving and a good set of Delortos. Somebody more knowledgeable than myself will tell you if your Chrysler GLS should have come out of the factory with the good TC motor and head - otherwise this is what you should be hunting down first. (Unless you want to go Japanese or American of course)
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: avenga on March 14, 2012, 10:12:04 PM
Why would you bother?

The hunter engine is rubbish compared to the Avenger engine. The 1600 Alpine is more powerful than the twin carb 1725 hunter engine. (82 Vs 80 HP on a testbed)

The hunter engine was carried on from the Humbers so it was probably designed in sometime in the 50's, it is old sloper technology Vs the Avenger engine which was a much better newly designed modern engine.

The Avenger engine can develop much more power when you tweak it also. They are totally different era engines and they don't really compare. Just because it is bigger displacement doesn't mean it is better. A lot of 2L engine make more power than my big 4.3L hemi 265 in my Charger.

Hillman Avenger GT 1600 twin carb 82HP (on a testbed at the flywheel, parasitic draining devices such as alternator or waterpump)

http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=60555

Hillman Hunter GT 1725 twin carb 80HP (on a testbed at the flywheel, parasitic draining devices such as alternator or waterpump)

http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=59961
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: avenga on March 14, 2012, 10:15:39 PM
Quote from: blekkja on March 14, 2012, 09:51:52 PM
It shouldn't be too much of a problem to get over the magical 100 horse barrier with a bit of enlarging, weight saving and a good set of Delortos.

My 1500 is putting out 78HP at the wheels which is over 100 at the flywheel or over 115 on a test bed like they used to test them.
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: Nikolai on March 14, 2012, 10:51:40 PM
[useless, informationless post]

SR20DE!
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: JoKer on March 14, 2012, 10:52:49 PM
90hp rwkw here using Richards Dellotto's
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: 1600GLS on March 14, 2012, 11:02:07 PM
i have sum 40mm webers but they are 4 another project myb i will build a new head for it to get it to breath better
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: avenga on March 14, 2012, 11:06:47 PM
My race car was well over 100hp at the wheels. didn't get it dyno'd in it's final phase of development but we broke the 100HP at the wheels mark pretty early on in the development so I would guess in the final version of the engine it would have been around 120-130HP at the wheels.

Dynoing a car used to be so expensive so I get it dyno'd a few times early on then we did the rest by ear but we gain a heap more power out of it over the years of racing and developing it.
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: avenga on March 14, 2012, 11:12:30 PM
Quote from: 1600GLS on March 14, 2012, 11:02:07 PM
i have sum 40mm webers but they are 4 another project myb i will build a new head for it to get it to breath better

Use dellortos if you can. They are much better on an Avenger. The smaller fuel droplet size makes a huge difference.

I have some old magazine articles by David Vizard on how he built a 160HP Avenger engine back in the 70's. I will scan them sometime.
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: blekkja on March 14, 2012, 11:44:10 PM
I have a Delorto vs Weber comparison for Avengers in an old Magazine, and likewise.


If you have Webers they will be better than Stromys, but given that you will need to hunt down or manufacture a manifold you might as well go for broke to start with.
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: avenga on March 15, 2012, 12:14:17 AM
Yeah the manifold is the hard part to find. I found mine in Aussie.
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: kierbear on March 15, 2012, 11:40:43 AM
i agree with nikolai lol but i was told that hunter engines dont even really fir properly
???
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: Nikolai on March 15, 2012, 11:47:40 AM
Fitting most engine conversions costs the same, as the cost is in other things - rewiring, brake upgrades, diff upgrades, suspension etc which you have to do anyway if you're adding serious power.

The SR20DE fits in REALLY well, can convert to use the same original Hillman pedal box, you get the 5sp gearbox, plenty of room for mods down the track... Manifolds + Trumpets + Lumpy Cams + Turbos etc.. Even the exhausts line up near perfectly, no trans tunnel work required either. This is in a 74 four door Avenger.

You also get heaps of power (probably), mine still isn't running yet :D


Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: avenga on March 15, 2012, 01:16:35 PM
I agree. The SR20DE conversion looks sweet. I am amazed how well everything fits, if I hadn't spent so much on my hot 1500 then I would be doing the same thing as Nikolai.
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: kierbear on March 15, 2012, 07:15:19 PM
yea but if you had to put it in yourself, which would be more of a pain to get put in? not all of us trust other people with our cars lol
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: 1600GLS on March 15, 2012, 09:20:36 PM
what ever way i go i will do most of it mi self as i work at a jaguar restoration shop mainly engine rebuilds race cars and some panel work. dont really want to go down sr20 road dont lyke injection much i had a twin turbo xj6 that we put a link in to much buggering around to get it going an tune myb do a 1500? will have to look in to it a bit more
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: blekkja on March 17, 2012, 01:44:42 AM
Go for a Ford V8 then, man. Most 50s/60s Rootes vehicles were designed with Ford motors in mind (ie: The Suneam/Simca 2 door sports cars) and even though Chrysler ended up buying them out in the late 60s the Avenger is still much the same. This is why a 5 speed ford box will pretty much bolt up to an Avenger motor only needing a new crossmember. A 2.3L turbo cosworth could be pretty cool too, actually.
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: 1600GLS on March 17, 2012, 12:26:08 PM
2ltr ztec motor would be cool
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: 1600GLS on July 13, 2012, 07:26:47 PM
bought a 20v 4age for avenger
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: avenga on July 13, 2012, 07:38:08 PM
Sweet. The 4age should fit nicely. If they could squeeze an SR20DE in Nikolai's Avenger then the 4age should be sweet.
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: 1600GLS on July 13, 2012, 08:16:22 PM
should do just have to find ae85 gear box need 1 with cable clutch what did they do in nikolai's 1
Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: avenga on July 13, 2012, 08:25:52 PM
Cable would be easier. I know they had to muck around a bit with the hydraulic clutch on Nikolai's.

Title: Re: does any one know how hard 2 put 1725 motor in to avenger
Post by: Nikolai on July 13, 2012, 10:34:55 PM
Modified pedal-box to take hydraulic clutch; then run lines.