This is a thread to discuss Paddy75's 1300 Super (http://www.avenger.co.nz/forum/index.php?topic=203.0)
Welcome to the forum Paddy.
Great story about driving an Avenger at age 3, must me the youngest Avenger driver here.
I had my first drive in an Avenger when I was about 17 or so. I brought my 1980 Chrysler Avenger as my first car and learnt to drive in it. I have had it ever since, I turned it in to a race car when I was in my early 20's.
Good to see another Avenger nut.
well paddy tar isteach,were are you in n.i. i have a few contacts up there with avengers who might be able to help you out with bits,i have done the ferry trip manys a time with avengers,good times.
will reply to your pm tonight sorry about delay.
Congratulations on a great low mileage car Paddy. I saw it on eBay and it was the best looking one I'd seen for a while. I know rust is more of an issue in the UK than here. A few of us would like to import an Avenger but are worried about rust (and previous rust repairs) stopping compliance. Then you have to get engineers reports and certified welding done, etc. Also copper brake pipes are legal in the UK but not here, so they'd have to be replaced with bundy tubing, making the whole process very expensive. Have seen a few restored Avengers on eBay without rust issues, but we're talking big money to buy those ones!
Thanks folks, I'm trying to get a set of opening quarter vents for (Gran)da'venger. At
We never got the drum front brake Avengers here...too many steep hills...and we didn't get the 1250 model either, just the 1500, then the 1300 and 1600 later on.
All NZ Avengers (even 1300's) had disc front brakes and alternators too.
That decision helped sales no doubt, as there was still a few all drum brake cars for sale in NZ in the 1970's and they weren't popular, except with mechanics...lol.
I remember when we got the VW Golf Mk1 in 1975 and it came with drum front brakes...what a sales disaster...they quickly upgraded it to disc front brakes!
Mine has pre-engaged starter and an alternator. The drum brakes work okay and it doesn't take that much effort to operate.
The only, pretty minor scare was approaching a yield going downhill, I was had forgot about the drums then went for the brakes, Wowww shi!!!! So just gear down a wee bit earlier. I'd need diffrent strut bottoms/hubs to fit discs, which might be a good idea as where I'm from its all steep hills. I think all the 1600s had discs and the early 1250s, no doubt the retrograde step was Chrysler being mean.
I'm thinkin' of a car recovery firm in Somerset...
Hopefully picures to come.
The preserving of a '75 Hillmans body.
In total this Avenger of mine will not, cannot rust.
The Exterior paint I don't need to worry about, bar paperglue and stick a wee bit of the lower coach stripe.
She was done in 2-pack about I'd guess 5-6 years ago. Nice job was done.
Here is a word to the orange 1300super member:
Bud' what u gotta do is scrape off the schutz/black underseal
not burn, heat off, aye mine is sorta the same.
da'venger had v.llittle rust on her.
The reasion my one is in good shape is because:
Think, in 1980 all our Avengers were cheap good 2nd or 3rd hand cars.
So the Avengers that didn't get too much drivin'
and
somebody looked after the undersides.
What you gotta do 1300super, is get the old u/seal off, acid strip the floor, chassis legs, down to pretty much the bare steel.
Any rot you kill with the acid, you dose the sills inner with this too... watch the crap the sill inner bokes out.
Then you hot waxoil, or in Ireland we call it hot finnegans it, inside sills, behind dash, acid any rust u see in the car in total.
Do the insides of the chassy legs.
So they will, the bodies, oh and get burnt oil, do the door inners, and engine bay clean out ans spray burn't oil.
Then lastly, the good grey schutz over the finnegans wax.
How you preserve an Avenger so the body will last another near 40 years.
Paddy B.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKVEgL_m4yo
dumb yanks
Pretty good review for a yank.
Love the power bulge, 4 headlight and tiger stripes.
Looked awesome bounding over the rough terrain.
thats an interesting cricket video along with the extras richard mentioned it also has the rear spioler,restall buckets,exacton alloys and is running twin strombergs,i presume this was a promotional model as i havent seen any other crickets with this spec.
it looks like a mix of gt and mk2 tiger with a power bulge instead of mat black bonnet.i wonder is it still alive i must send the vid to rick nossa who is new york and has 2 crickets.
he is also an avenger nut.
good find paddy
C&T, said it was noisy, ITS A F***ING COMPACT U F****S
and the Avenger is optimizeed to be RHD, they were sitting over the noise/exaust side.
When we were teenagers, the things we did to avengers, cortinas, asconas and escorts, 'rakin' about fields, lanes back roads (boreens) and forests.
''..The Crickets high speed cornering is not its suit..'' What? Thats a damn lie! Sure they even tightened up the chicane cones!
Anyhow, I believe the Cricket was sold a few years longer in Canada.
Did you guys never see those videos?
Go Easy.
I would agree with the Avengers being noisy my '75 makes a hell of a racket, but in a good way.
You can get them quieter by using the bonnet sound deadening they had in the later Chrysler Avengers, you can retrofit them to Hillmans like Ross did in his.
Americans see corners different than the rest of the world and owning a muscle car I fully know what he means. He isn't saying they are bad handling just that they lack power out of the corners. Which compared to an American car it is true, you do need to change down a lot more in an Avenger to get it to pull out of corners, especially a stock Avenger. Compare that to my 1972 Chyrsler Valant Charger and it has tons of power to pull you sideways out of a corner.
Remember in the 70's Americans used to think all 4 bangers were gutless. They are used to cars like the Dodge Chargers and Challengers with 440CI (7200cc) V8 engines, so of cause a little 1500cc Avenger is going to seem like a big stepdown. Even my 265CI (4300cc) Hemi Charger would leave an Avenger in the dust.
I think the review was fair given the huge tanks Americans were driving at the time. Unless you own a muscle car you have now idea how truely big they are. Americans have a different size scale than UK, Escorts and Avengers were Subcompacts. My Charger would be classed as a compact car in the 70's in America and that is huge. To be classed as a compact the car needs to be longer than 165 inches and a wheel base of over 100 inches. And because the Avenger is only 161 inches long and has a wheelbase of 98 inches then by the American standards it is a Subcompact.
Sure the Avenger is a bit noisy but it handles. Where I live its mostly bumpy roads with all sorts of crazy cambers and hump-backed bridges. That wee Avenger did them the best. I recall horsing about with school friends in a Chrysler Avenger, musta been a '78 or '79, this was around 1990. The cornering on the Avengers was the best and the handbrakes were pretty keen too!
I must get a good video cam so u all can see the 'snake tracks' of our boreens. Then the Avenger handeling them well. Would look a bit like the Path
I agree that the Avenger has awesome handling. That is why I use one as a rally car.
on any rough road I would much rather take the Avenger than the Charger because the Avenger has vastly superior suspension. My Charger is torsion bar and leaf suspension so cornering is less of an exact science and more praying. The Avenger with it's macpherson strut, 4 link trailing arms and coil all round is miles better handling than any American car and the Chargers recirculating ball steering steering which is like steering a car through a bowl of soggy porridge but the rack and pinion steering in the Avenger is really tight and responsive.
You also have to know that Americans don't have corners and windy hills for the most part like we do. That is why in the review he said the ride was hard and bumpy. That is just a normal ride for us because American cars are so wobbly it does actually feel like you are sailing. I have done a lot to my Charger to try to firm up the ride but it is still soft as.
What the reviewer was comparing it to was big land yachts that cruise down the interstates and need to go round a slight bend every few hundred kilometers. So of cause they are going to dislike some bits just because it doesn't seem normal to them.
This is why British cars never really worked well in the states and same with American cars in UK, they are just made for totally different kinds of roads. That is why I like having both a big land yacht that I can go sailing down the big straight motorways in and a little nippy car for zooming around the back roads in.
Btw you mentioned about your dashboards. We had them a bit different here. Here are some photos of my dashboard. You will notice the fuel is in litres not gallons and the speedo is in KPH
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1010304.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1010306.jpg)
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1010308.jpg)
Have to say I reckon the circular clocks look better with the fuel: 0 . 5 . 10 galls, the oil pressure is 0 . 50 . (nothing) psi, but is it just me or is the Alpine clock cool as f***!
Yeah I like the round guages much better than the strip speedo.
I was pleased I found one with a rev counter. I have 3 of them now and only one has the rev counter, the other 2 just have that blank space like yours.
It reminds be of my Chargers dashboard.
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/Power%20cruise/P1010318.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-11/1105072/charger36.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-11/1105072/charger35.jpg)
Dashboard porno!
Aye for sure they look kinda cool. There is a guy in America with the hots for a set of Avenger round clocks.
Nice charger btw, thanks for the post.
My '74 Alpine has round dials and a blank bezel for the tacho (mean Chrysler again!)
Have ordered a new tacho for $30 delivered from Speedy Spares..:->
Just had to pull the cluster out and check if it was Smiths or AC Delco, mine's Delco.
Thanks Oldschool, where do I get in touch with them, I mean the tacho spares. Thanks again.
They're in East Sussex Paddy...www.speedyspares.co.uk and e-mail is... speedy.spares@btconnect.com
10 pounds for a new tacho!!
Wow, great site. With a few parts I can bring my Avenger up to as good as new. Guid lad Oldschool.
Well I've got a 3.79:1 crown wheel and pinion, the transmission in mine is making turbo-prop plane noises at 50mph so I'd say a young buckaroo was horsing it about at some stage in this last 36 years! I need to take apart the diff and change bearings and shims anyhow. According to the Haynes manual after '78 there tas an improvement in the gearboxes. So the plan is a gearbag from a 78-81 avenger/sunbeam and the higher ratio diff with new rollers.
However I'm bitten by the Avenger bug so I want a cheaper, rougher one to drop a 1600cc TC + engine into. Killarney rally here we come!
Sure as the guy who is acid treating the 1300Super said, ''..people are sick of looking at MKII Escorts!..''
Very true.
They make really good rally cars so if you are looking for a cheap rally car then an Avenger is a perfect option. There is at least 3 of us on the forum who race Avengers so we have plenty of experiance at making them scream.
I used late model gearboxes in my race car as it is a 1980 Chrysler Avenger and I alway found them to be really weak. Depending on the kind of rally you are doing a 5 speed conversion might be the best option.
Mal Stuart motorsports in the UK makes a bellhousing for a Ford Sierra 5 speed, or in NZ Mal at By'gone Autos did my 5 speed conversion.
http://www.malstuartmotorsport.net/www.malstuartmotorsport.net/info.php?p=10
O'Kanes in Co Derry,
http://www.fix14u.co.uk/okane/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=163
Yup, Thats the one.
All the clutch and drive shaft are the same so just fine a Type 9 Sierra gearbox then away you go. You do need to move the gearshifter but that is easily done. Read my 5 speed conversion thread for more info.
http://www.avenger.co.nz/forum/index.php?topic=60.0
Well I've put in a bid for an avenger gearbox mount too. The 1300 (as I've been only annoying ye lot about) is not the long term motor in it. I was thinking, as ford g/bag sure why not a sierra 1.8 or 1.6 cvh engine, they are light enough. Just keep the old eng & box to return to original if/when selling. Aye a 1.6 sierra cvh, 80bhp and torquey. With the diff, 3.89:1 I'd reckon that'd be a good running car.
Diff gears are got. All parts needed to get it running 100%.
So here goes a project, it'll be delayed 'till I get home. Ford cvh into an old Hillman Avenger.
whats a CVH? i'm lost :P
edit : just read some more haha what a mongrel!
love it
Mongrels are the best.
Avenger is noisy, the Ford CVH = Coarse Vibirationary & Harsh
henry called it sumtin different
You see a modern alloy headed engine that is with the 9 'box
all u have to do is align the engine mounts, and the ford cvh the exaust drops on the right side for an avenger.
the escort (1986 engine) 1.4 would pull an avenger no bother.
Aye, yer right some mongrel, btw sell me one of your NZ Avengers and send to me. $1k nz for a clean one? okay.
Hey Paddy, here's a cheap NEW Avenger cylinder head to play with on eBay....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hillman-Avenger-Talbot-Chrysler-Sunbeam-Head-71981528-/110734807567?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19c84f120f
Hey how did you know I'm an awful futter? Haha good lad. Aye a spare head to leave into the engineering shop to machine in hardened valve seats. Do you reckon that head was skimmed?
Really thinkin' about how a 1.4 cvh would work, 70-72bhp and 35-4-mpg. I need to find another, rough one. I'll look about for an old Talbot and take an angle grinder to the back bullshit caps, then ... Hillmanize a Chrysler/Talbot, yeh why not. Then drop a cvh & 9 g/box. Grand.
Nah not skimmed, looks new, could just do with Tiger valves Paddy...lots of them on eBay too!!
Make sure it puts out more power than an Allegro when you're finished...you don't want to be overtaken by BL's finest...haha
That Allegro on Life on Mars was hard case...smoked like a chimney and didn't handle the cross country driving too well...probably lost all its Hydragas in the first few seconds?...lol
First time I'd seen a Mk1 Allegro with that sexy Quartic steering wheel no less!!
We only got the Mk2 here, so many problems with the Mk1, we kept on selling the Austin 1300 as long as possible, up until 1975 no less...what a collectors item OMG!
Mind you, to be fair, at least that 1973 Mk1 Allegro in Life on Mars was authentic, not like the Cortina GXL which was actually a later model 2000E with GXL badges!
What were they thinking?..any Found On Rubbish Dump mechanic knows the E has a completely different dash and square headlights!!
Took the props buyer a long time to live that one down...haha
Well happily where I come from all the BL's have long gone to the breakers, well not even the breakers, to the scrap iron dealers. Its purely an english thing coddling an Allegro or the like. I haven't even seen a Metro for years now. The classics heading to Irl would be Fords, Hillmans and the odd Morris Minor or more rarely still an 1100.
I seen a late Allegro 'type 3' in the scrap yard about 4 years ago and it was in easy restorable condition, but I guess no intrest at all in it, as it was sitting/holding under a bigger car, that is it was so low priority that it was a soft landing for something else.
The 1100 was probabbly a more reliable car and ceartanly looked better!
Yeh the Life on Mars Cortina, I'd seen J.Clarkson slagging off the mistake with the badging to the actor Phillip Glennister. I've never seen a quartic steering wheel in the flesh, probabbly because it became such a joke that BL offered to replace the wheels with a round one.
How odd a scenario? Around about 1975 there must have neen a man looking at a skip load of quartic steering wheels!
Ach aye! Hydragas, I'd forgotton about that. ''Beware the leaning Leyland''
Hey! Those excuses for cars were so bad, they have become a legend, will people in 50 years time still! be slagging them off!??
I mean, the Ital was even WORSE than the Marina! Likewise the Allegro 3 (with the pointy-out back lights) also was even more rusty than the previous one!
Janey-Mac, but how did they just get absolutely EVERYTHING wrong!!!
Anyhow, another thing about the Avenger I noticed, the steering, beuatifull - I seen in the Haynes manual that the steering column is well bushed and has good hardy-spicers type joints in them, I thought to myself that the steering was great and smooth in the Avenger before I noticed that.
So, Ford - errr, the wide-boys liked them, the Sierra (if it was not made in england or spain and had the later cvh engines) was pretty good, likewise the later Escorts.
Okok 1970's fords, errr, they kinda had a macho-ish image. They were the business for doing doughnuts.
BL = null points
So that leaves the Rootes company. The least remembered of the '70's cars, and well remembered by those that owned them or sat in them, or indeed those who first grabbed a live sterring wheel in one.
Nice steering, good on fuel, better suspension.
You know what guys?
If we were able to buy/order a new Hillman from NZ, could you imagine how Life on Mars would have looked?
ATB folks, Go Easy on her.
Hey Paddy, hope you get the cylinder head...don't forget the Tiger valves!!!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HILLMAN-AVENGER-TIGER-1973-76-4-INLET-VALVE-1-55-NEW-/250882245909?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a69bf4515
Hmmm 1600 TC, you are a-startin' them fashons now dear Kitty McGee! I seen a round leadlamp grill for
I got my round headlamp grille for $1 of trademe (like the NZ version on Ebay)
I got the lights and buckets for $50
I didn't bid on it because she was looking for too much, I might offer her
Damn I didn't win the clynderhead, thanks anyhow Oldschool.
Never mind Paddy...here's another Avenger on eBay for you to drool over....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HILLMAN-AVENGER-1500-G-LUXE-GREEN-/290606041713?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item43a9784a71
BTW it doesn't haven't a brake booster...does that mean it has drum brakes all round?
No, that has discs, boosters/servos were for fannys or women when the early Avengers were new - pity about the color of that one!
Right, got a Tiger head, 1.55'' inlet valves, collets & caps, valve springs and a 1600cc Stromberg carbie.
This is damn well costing!
Do any of you guys know what the correct size of exause valve is for the Tiger/Ti head?
When I get home, that wee 1300cc engine is in for a suprize! I really need a TC inlet manifold,
ohh and errrr, I think the 'all-drum' brakes just might need upgrading! Hahaha.
What do you think, Tiger head/valves on a 1300 with a single CD3 1.6 tuned carb?
65-68 bhp, I'd reckon.
I've found a speedo (handy to have a spare) and rev counter to suit the binnacle in me Avenger, happily the seller does't know what it is/for. Okay, and may that be the last part I buy!
Hey folks go to 6:00 into this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uquSW3NEuio
As for myself I'm back at home and getting a lot of stress over work, seems like a firm are trying to stroke me. Hey-ho. The Avenger seems okay, found the right fella to diff it up, 3.89:1.
http://keepingupappearances.wikia.com/wiki/Onslow_Smith :p KIWI connection via Trucker cap
Right? Very good. Not many sitcoms in Ireland. Its said the Brits have a more direct wit, the Irish meander too much for sitcoms and so-on. Here is a clip about a comedian called Pat Short taking the piss outta (Avenger driving) Gards (Irish police)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8k1d8uX9Gw
''..jayz now, ye can't do that..''
paddy do you not remember the kilinascully episode with the avenger in it?
the boys were racing against the next village think they had an escort.
No I didn't see that episode, probabbly was abroad at the time, hauld on... youtube.. nah no joy! I'll try to utorrent. BTW i've added a few pictured nore of my yoke on photobucket, note the damp. Also I've an Avenger brocuure ''the '74 Avengers photographed in Brighton'' and a Chrysler '76 general brochure. I can send then to you or scan them if you want.
Well, what did I say about BL parts? Went for a err.. refreshment on friday night, jumped into d'Avenger to the bar and after one jar (honest!) and rrrrr.rrrrrr..rrrrrrrr. Okay says I to myself, 1970's motoring.
Lid up, main HT lead out, rrrr - sparksparkspark. Okay the ignition is fine,next to the pretty worn out carbie, fuel smell, hand around it, 'click!' the metering tube had jammed and my paw-ing around in the dark I had free'd it up again, Avenger started.
So the SU's carbies days are numbered, bloody well knew anything from a Marina was not going to work. I took the SU off it the next day, done, kaput, the richness mixture I see was adjusted off the scale, that is the screw at its minimum ans still soaking with juice, so the innards of the metering needle and tube must be worn out.
When I removed a spark plug there was too rich fuel vapour coming out like steam! Dead carbie.
So, Ebay I found a Stromberg CD3 WITH the linkage for the Hillman Avenger throttle rod - hard to find, its bought. Okay its needled for a 1500cc but thats better than the leaking hose currently in it! Next on the agenda, a 1300cc (or 1250 would do) CD3 needle.
Happy motoring folks.
Well! I put a bid on a Vanguards Corgi Hillman Avenger in Polar white. I won the auction, and it was the cheapest toy Avenger I could find on ebay I am intending to give it to my nephew as a Christmas present. So it arrived yesterday. Brand new in box etc.
''This is to certify that this is a limited edition and is No. 1975 of only 4,510.''
I'm not kidding! Spooky!
Hey Paddy, thought I'd make your day...
Here's a comparison road test from 2005 between the Avenger 1300 and Marina 1300...guess which one won?!
Clue..."BL should have issued health warnings with every Marina sold to an unsuspecting member of the public."...LOL
http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/2011/07/15/tested-marina-vs-avenger/
Re: Stone chips on the sills.
A good set of mud flaps will stop that happening again Paddy...the all rubber ones like my Alpine has are best, as they bend with the curves in the wheel arches better than the two piece metal/rubber ones.
?? Where did my threads go? I guess the pictures must have been putting too much on your server.
Yeh mudflaps but the stones will get everywhere, I believe the way forward is mix paint with rubberseal and spray on the sills.
Thanks for the article, I don't understand what he means by the Avenger having heavy steering? Uh? He (the jurno) is a BL man so I can only guess that the Marinas steering was super light after giving the front trunnions a good greasing.
To be nice as I can to the Marina and I have thought long and hard about what a 'rina had over an Avenger.
Style, nope. Comfort, nope. Handeling, hahahahaha no! Reliability, nope. Interior errr sheesh the Marina1 dashboard!
The Marina was slightly better on fuel. That's it.
Okok I'll give the Marina one more merit. When we used to destroy old cars around the fields and forest tracks the Marina sorta 'flew' the best, trouble was once the Leyland Laggard hit the ground again....''...the best bits from the BMC/Leyland parts bin...''
Oh really, really? My arse!
Just one more thing ma'am...
Chrysler spent ?25mi developing the Avenger, included a factory complete re-fit and this resulted in a car that was generally liked, everywhere it was sold - ok the USA was a very different market.
BL spent ?40mi, yes 40 at the same time in history as Chrysler spent 25. ?40,000,000 to put a set of shoulder pads on a Minor, fiddle about with the Triumph gearbox and slightly beef up the Minors front suspension. Forty Million Pounds Sterling.
Jobs for the boys?
Oh yeh and see the way he said the Marinas gearchange was okay, even when they hadn't broken the selectors, look at the guy trying to engage reverse on the Ital 'skeleton in a dustbin' video in the jokes section.
Oh I just remember too much breakdowns on that 1.8 Coup? my Father had, its not just jumping on a piano dropping bandwagon. They were dung, but pair play to anyone looking after one I honestly hope people get a lot of pleasure with their Marinas.
I personally hate them but that's just how ones childhood leaves characteristics on a man.
With a new coat of paint it looks presentable beside machines like this.
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g379/Paddy075/PICT0999_zps0f9752f0.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/Paddy075/media/PICT0999_zps0f9752f0.jpg.html)