Ian's Avenger Wagon Discussion

[ianboydsnr]

Hi and welcome to the forum!
That wagon doesn't look too bad, pretty straight...how is the rust?
In NZ the Chrysler models had some basic rustproofing like plastic sill protectors.
My 1979 GLS hardly has any rust...but no salt here!
The wagon is the rarest Avenger model in NZ, maybe more common in the UK, have seen lots of them on eBay lately.

It looks better in the picture, dash has a few cracks, there's a couple of holes in the top channel of the rear hatch opening, and the timing cover part that is behind the water pump is corroded to the point that there's no stub for the rad pipe to fix to, it needs the socket clips for the headlamps, that the adjuster fits into, but are unobtanium,

but its still in pretty solid condition, and very rare even here in the UK,

service parts seem easy to find, but I am finding it difficult to track down the timing cover, I may have to replace the engine and box with something newer!

[Paddy75]

Hi Ian if you are really stuck for a timing cover I should be able to get one off a field-find 1972 1250cc. BTW is your MK2 points or electronic. The earlier MK2 still had points and the rod linked throttle. Its a GLS? What carbie is on it? I believe there was a four stud carb mount for the high performance models to hold a Stromberg CD175.
Good luck with your restoration.

[ianboydsnr]

Its electronic ignition,

not sure what carb is fitted, but it is a single stromberg, I will sort out a picture tommorrow,

thanks for the offer, much appreciated, but something should turn up this side of the world, if not then the engine and box won't be wasted 

[avenga]

Paddy is over in Ireland, so I am sure he would be able to post you a timing cover fairly cheaply off his field-find 1250.

Also in the UK try Speedyspares. They have a lot of Avenger parts http://www.speedyspares.co.uk/

[Paddy75]

Yes Speedy Spares are very helpfull and even if the part you need is not on their list you can ask them as they have a lot of bits that are not listed. There is also SOPS also (google it or check them out via ASOC) who specialize in Sunbeam parts and of course a timing cover for a Sunbeam is the same as an Avenger.

[Paddy75]

Is that, hang on I'll look at mine...Right the timing cover is one piece and the cold return from the rad has rotted away. I'd guess they still can be bought.
You have a Series 8 on Avenger by the looks of things (12 fuse-box on the inner gaurd) so that means it'll have the 1'' longer TCA's so you don't get tramlining on radial tyres.

The link between the steering column and the rack, make sure you oil it untill all the crap is out of it then grease it. I'm told they have a habit of collecting the shit up from the road untill they sieze or wear out. It is a pricey wee part to get, although I was lucky as I got a spare one for £5, but that'll not happen again!
Likewise rip out the steering rack and put it up with the full lock out as if to turn right and let all the old oil seep out, refill with a 1/4 Pint of EP 80/90.
As for my GLS carbie theory it must have only been the Series 5 & 6 that had the four stud manifold for the CD1.75''
Maybe the Sunbeam had the 1.75 on the GLS version?!

Anyhow you'll get the resto done more easily than you perhaps think Ian. The bulkhead lowers look sound so I can assume the floor pan is solid - that was the real Ave/beam bug!

[Paddy75]

Oh I forgot, you might be able to settle a rolling debate about the diff gearing on Estate Wagon Avengers. According to Haynes:
7 Series (MK2) on, The third from last number of the 'Vehicle Service number' on the Chassis identification plate indicates the rear axle ratio:
1 & 2 = 4.37:1 - Used for 1250cc & early 1300cc (also found in 1.0 Sunbeams)
3 & 4 = 4.11:1 - Used for 1300GT & S5&6 1300cc
5 & 6 = 3.89:1 - Used for 1500cc & early 1600cc, probabbly also MK2 1300cc
7 & 8 = 3.70:1 - Used for S6? on 1600cc
9 & 0 = 3.54:1 - Used on MK2 1600cc
So assuming the Wagons got a lower ratio, I'm betting yours is '5 or 6' on that third from last Vehicle service code number!
Oldschool, JoKer and avenga, any bets!

[avenga]

Most of the late model wagons I scrapped were 4.11:1, while the late model sedans were 3.70:1.

I use a 4.11:1 estate diff in my race car and a 3.70:1 in my road car.

[ianboydsnr]

Is that, hang on I'll look at mine...Right the timing cover is one piece and the cold return from the rad has rotted away. I'd guess they still can be bought.
You have a Series 8 on Avenger by the looks of things (12 fuse-box on the inner gaurd) so that means it'll have the 1'' longer TCA's so you don't get tramlining on radial tyres.

The link between the steering column and the rack, make sure you oil it untill all the crap is out of it then grease it. I'm told they have a habit of collecting the shit up from the road untill they sieze or wear out. It is a pricey wee part to get, although I was lucky as I got a spare one for £5, but that'll not happen again!
Likewise rip out the steering rack and put it up with the full lock out as if to turn right and let all the old oil seep out, refill with a 1/4 Pint of EP 80/90.
As for my GLS carbie theory it must have only been the Series 5 & 6 that had the four stud manifold for the CD1.75''
Maybe the Sunbeam had the 1.75 on the GLS version?!

Anyhow you'll get the resto done more easily than you perhaps think Ian. The bulkhead lowers look sound so I can assume the floor pan is solid - that was the real Ave/beam bug!

The bodywork is pretty solid, Its had some welding work done to the bottom of the front inner wings, and the wings and front valance, and will need further work to the rear wheel arches, but hopefully that will be minor, main rust is the top rain channel of the rear hatch, that has let water into the car, and the rear window needs removed and the cause of it leaking investigated

it needs a new dash, the seats recovered and a lot of other work done on the interior not sure what you mean about the steering, I thought that there was a rubber disc that connected the column to the rack, its had a new rack, as the old one had rusted up due to the car being abandoned in a garden for several years and the rubber boots being perished,

I will get back to you on the axle ratio number, tommorrow!

[oldschool]

I'm betting it's a 4:11 diff same as the the NZ ones.
Paddy's talking about the metal steering universal joint connected to the bottom of the steering column at one end and the rubber disc at the other.
They can run dry and bind, making the steering stiff....thought I had a steering rack problem in my GLS, was just about to pull it out..then thought to check the steering universal...sure enough it was dry, so copious amounts of CRC and oil later she was as good as new.
Yeah that rain channel is a problem on the wagons, not enough fall and the water just sits in there causing rust...a major job to fix if the hinges have rusted out!
I understand the 1.75" carb was only used on the last of the 1976-77 Hillman GLS Avengers, all the Chrysler models had the 1.5".

[Paddy75]

You guys are probabbly right, a 4:11 which means Ian will see 3,000rpm@45mph as in my S5 1300. I was just thinking that maybe the later 1600 saloon had 3.54 on the LS & GL then a 3.70 on the GLS for acceleration. So if I assume the wagons were one step down, a GLS Series 8 on would be at 3.89:1.
My Chrysler '76 brochure states the 1600cc (S6 MK1) had the 3.70:1 and I notice too an article on the 1976 1600 Super, which were the last Supers before the MK2 and had the the round headlights, they had noticed a higher top speed and better economy than on the 1974 1600 they had tested.
The '74 Avengers photographed in Brighton' states a 3.89:1 ratio for the 1600, this being a S4 then S5 got a steeper static timing curve, they upped the 1300cc to 4.11:1.
Looking at the orange 1600DL Avenger I came accross whis is a S5 (service#, Sunbeam type window handles and concave front struts) it had 'T5xx' in the Service code which apparently means HC and 3:89:1.
Anyhow its seen that there were a lot of changes made even to the MK1 Avengers throughout its production. This is unusual for cars of the era, usually they started bad and got worse! It can be tricky getting the correct strut inserts for them with all the changes. S5 (09/'74 on build) got concave struts then also the strut for a drum brake hub is diffrent again.

For example, 4-door 1500GT had 75bhp, the 1500GLS had 78bhp, the diffrence being the holset fan the GLS and 2-door 1600 GT's got.
Morris Marina owners need not have to think about such details!

[avenga]

3rd to last number on the service number is a 7. So 3.70:1?

Same as in my '75 super. Should pull around 3,500 @ 100KPH

[Paddy75]

Well according to Haynes, 7 or 8 is 3.70:1. the 'T7QH' in the number looks like a MK1 Service code, T being HC 1600cc. the 'L888..' means series 8?
Anyhow kinda good to know, well even if we are not sure!
If I found an Avenger or sunbeam axle loose then sure just count the rotations. I see in the cw the ratio is stamped on them. On the Chassis/VIN # the ..L167.. I think means Linwood, 16th week of 1977?
Anyway more importantly Ian seems to be making good progress and I should be getting the field-find pulled out of the field next weekend to strip clean. I was talking to a rally car building uncle-in-law about it who had told me a fellow with a bad bad reputation is after it.
Avenger hunting continues...
Next step is the breakers yards, I'm hoping to get, ''..take a look at the back there is a load of gearboxes and axles, dunno what they are for..''
Here is to hope!

[avenga]

Wow, awesome progress on removing the rust. Can't wait to see it finished.

I am in the middle of doing a restore on my '75 and I know all the work that goes in to repairing the rust. It is great that you are doing it all your self, I am just paying a panel beater to do mine, so it will cost an arm and a leg.

Keep up the good work and keep us posted.

[avenga]

Yes, you are correct about that Z shaped metal pipe. It is to allow the water to recirculate while the heater is off, and it does go where those copper pipes are.

Your radiator looks really good. Much better than any of mine.

That bottom pipe looks a mess. Good to see you are cleaning it all out. It is really good to give the whole cooling system a flush every now and then so it doesn't get that clogged.